Election 2021: Douglas Ross interview on poverty, NHS, drug deaths and a second independence referendum

Glasgow Times Political Correspondent, Stewart Paterson, quizzed Douglas Ross on poverty and food banks, on the NHS and nurses pay, the shocking record rise in drug deaths, a second independence referendum and how many paid jobs he plans on doing after the election.

Below we publish a full transcript of the interview.

This interview was conducted before the parties suspended campaiging for the death of Prince Phillip.

Poverty

Stewart Paterson: “Over the last few years, repeatedly we’ve been hearing that it’s UK Conservative government policy on Social Security that is the cause of more people using foodbanks. How does that make you feel?”

Douglas Ross: “I don’t want people to have to use foodbanks. We’ve seen an increase not just in Scotland and the UK but around the world and certainly in Europe. What we have seen during this pandemic however, is the uplift in Universal Credit, which is something I supported and campaigned for it to be extended during the pandemic and I want to see as much support as possible to help people who are  on benefits, that’s why the uplift was so important but also to get people back into work as well and that’s  why we’ve got a series of plans we want to take forward to help people who can get  back into work into jobs and that’s one of the best  ways we can tackle the ongoing problems.”

SP: “The Trussell Trust and Citizens Advice Scotland have mentioned Universal Credit is the main reason for more people using food banks. In Glasgow it was a 23% annual increase. The big reason is the five-week wait for the first payment and that it just doesn’t provide enough money for people to live on. Is that something that needs to be addressed?”

DR: “Obviously that has been addressed with in terms of the uplift.   I know it’s temporary and has been extended now for another six months but we have seen during this pandemic record numbers of people in Universal Credit because sadly people have lost their jobs during the pandemic and one thing people have said to me when I’ve gone into Jobcentres and DWP offices is just how successful the Universal Credit system has been, given the huge demand and surge of people moving onto it.

“I understand there are still issues to address with it, I’m constantly speaking to ministers about UC and how we can support people but certainly during the pandemic, I think it has been one area that people do accept there has been a huge increase in the volume of people turning to Universal Credit and it has been there to help people.

Drugs

SP: The latest figures show, for 2019, almost 300 people in Glasgow died from a drug related death and again record numbers in Scotland. There’s a mobile Overdose Prevention Site or safe drugs consumption van, being run by Peter Krykant, a volunteer in Glasgow which has intervened and saved several lives that would otherwise have been lost. Why don’t you support the setting up of an official site for this?”

DR: “I don’t believe there’s one silver bullet to address the shocking figures of the numbers of Glaswegians and Scots who lose their lives as a result of drug related deaths and it is a national shame. It’s a shame on our country that Scotland not only has the highest amount of drug deaths in the United Kingdom but in Europe and possible even the world. I have advocated and Scottish Conservatives have advocated for more funding going into rehab and clearly, we got a win from the Scottish Government with the £20m funding pledge being restored and I think it was wrong to cut that.

“On drug consumption rooms, the mobile unit that Peter has done a lot of work with, I just don’t think it’s right to continue with a… to encourage people to take drugs, I ‘d rather see the rehab focus on getting people off drugs altogether. That said I’m never a closed book on any of these issues. I’ll continue to look at the evidence. I still have concerns about the mobile unit which is why I don’t support it but I will always continue to listen to campaigners and to the evidence on this crucial issue.

SP: “To get to the stage where we’ve got more rehab and a range of treatments. In that space of time people will still be dying. They are still dying just now. Do their lives not matter enough for something to be done now to keep them alive until we get to the stage where we can help get them off drugs? “

DR: “They absolutely do matter which is why I think we’ve got to invest in rehab and we’ve seen the number of deaths as a result of drug related incidents increase more than any other part of the UK where we also don’t have drug consumption rooms or trials such as the one Peter is operating. So, there is a reason why Scotland has a disproportionately high number of these drug deaths and I personally think the way we’ve got to focus on that is by investing in rehab.  I do welcome that money going into rehab, it should never have been cut in the first place but I do think that is one of the measures we can take to try and get these numbers down because it’s too many lives lost and too many families full of grief as a result of these drug deaths.”

NHS

SP: “On a wider sense about health investment. The NHS has in part struggled to cope, capacity wise, with the pandemic. Some other services have had to be put on hold because of Covid. Do we need more investment in the NHS and do you think the Conservative’s austerity agenda has, at a UK level, meant less money has been invested in the NHS than is needed to allow us to cope with unexpected shocks like in the last year?”

DR: I do believe we need more money into the NHS which is why I was at Stobhill Hospital announcing Scottish Conservative commitment to put into legislation to put in a double lock which means over the course of the next parliament, funding for our NHS would rise either by the Barnett consequential or 2% above inflation, whichever is higher, which on current projections would see an additional £2bn going into our NHS over the course of the next parliament. That’s a firm pledge, a commitment to invest in our NHS.

“In terms of funding be it from the UK government to Scottish Government then to our NHS it’s accepted that  the funding settlement was the highest ever since devolution We’ve seen, to deal with the pandemic, another £13bn coming from UK Government to the Scottish Government, so there is support there and I want to see that  directed to the NHS who have done an outstanding job during this pandemic but we also  have to recognise treatments, appointments, referrals  have all been  delayed and deferred and we do need to catch up on these vital issues because as we are protecting people against Covid 19 we can’t allow that to get in the way of treating cancer and other illnesses that many people have put off going to their doctor about.”

SP: The latest paper I can see about investment in the health service, from the House of Commons library, shows historically the amount of spending of GDP that goes into the health service since the 1950s has increased massively. The biggest rise was between 1999 and 2010 and since then it has dropped. Dropped down below 7% of GDP since we’ve had another Conservative government. Is that something that should concern people when you’re trying to convince people the NHS is safe in the Conservatives hands?”

DR: “I think people can see for  the majority of the NHS’s 70 plus years the Conservatives have been in power and the NHS continues to provide  an outstanding service free at the point of delivery and protecting people from the cradle to the grave  and I think it’s right we continue to invest in the NHS and that’s why I’m giving this  cast iron guarantee that Scottish Conservatives will see investment in our NHS to the tune of more than £2bn additional support over and above the  funding that’s already going in. I think that’s what people want to see after the most difficult 12 months we’ve been through. They want to see it continue to be supported.”

SP: What do you think about the difference in the pay offers between the NHS, 1%, in England and 4% in Scotland?”

DR: It’s important to differentiate the two systems.  In England, the government put forward the proposals and it’s up to an independent body to take into account what the government has said, what the unions have said what the workforce has said. In Scotland we go through a different approach and the Scottish Government put forward the 4% offer. I know some unions are looking for higher. I welcome the support and the pay offer for our NHS staff. Its available here in Scotland because of the investment that we’ve seen, that £13bn additional support just this year and I would also say there are many of our key workers who have done an outstanding job over the last 12 months and we should look to recognise their efforts as well. Absolutely, our nurses NHS staff our carers, our teacher our police officers, we need to recognise what all our key workers have done over the last year.”

SP: You’re still an MP at Westminster, have you done anything to put pressure on the UK Government to offer a higher increase to staff in England?”

DR: “Yes, I’ve raised this with the health secretary, with the Prime Minister but as I say the Government put forward a proposal the Prime Minister has since said  he hopes the  independent panel looks at what we can do  for nurses in this pay deal but we have to look at what we do for all our key worker keeping us safe this past 12 months.”

Referendum

SP: If, on May 6, people vote to accept Nicola Sturgeon’s argument to hold a second referendum within the first half of the next parliament, what right would your party or any other party have to block that?”

DR: “I want to stop another referendum because I think it would be divisive and damaging particularly in our recovery phase. Nicola Sturgeon has now confirmed she wants to hold that second independence referendum in the first couple of years of this parliament and she’s accepted that  means during the recovery as we’re looking to protect people’s jobs, trying  to  rebuild our economy, trying to get  back to normal, the SNP want to take  us through a second damaging, divisive independence referendum and  clearly we were able to stop that five years ago by more than doubling the number of Conservative  MSPs which stopped the SNP getting  a majority and stopped another independence referendum. We can do that again at this election by people backing the Scottish Conservatives to stop that independence referendum and make sure our absolute focus is 100% on recovery from Covid-19.”

SP: “Is there any benefit in, if people do vote to be allowed to have that choice again and you then say ‘let’s have another referendum’ and you campaign against, as you did in 2014, and that could put the issue to bed once and for all.”

DR: “We were told the issue would be put to bed once and for all in 2014. The SNP put in their white Paper it was a once in a generation opportunity and both sides agreed it would respect the result of that referendum and I think the problem we have as we try to focus on our recovery is the uncertainty another referendum would bring, undermines our efforts to get our economy back up and running, puts jobs at risk as investment tends to be put off with constitutional uncertainty. And why would a second referendum finally determine things. If the SNP and the nationalist didn’t get their way a second time there would a third, fourth, fifth and however many until they think Scotland votes the way they want them to. So, I just think particularly during our recovery phase as we are rebuilding Scotland, we don’t want another referendum”

SP: you think the SNP would never accept the result as long as it’s a no vote?

DR: I don’t think the nationalists would ever accept a result in a referendum unless it was to separate Scotland from the rest of the UK because that’s exactly what’s happened since 2104. They have campaigned ever since to hold another referendum to try and deliver a different result. I accept that is their political position but I don’t think it helps our country recover.

Dual mandate

SP: If elected as an MSP, how many jobs will you then have?

DR: I’ll be an elected representative. So, I’m continuing as MP for Moray, that’s the seat that’s also included in Highlands and Islands region which I would be representing as an MSP and I’ve made it very clear that while there’s an additional salary I would not accept that and I would donate it to local charities. There are a number of candidates standing in this election who are currently MPs who are also seeking election to Holyrood and, of course, three of Scotland’s five First Ministers have been MPs and MPS and First Ministers of the country. It is something that has happened in the past.

SP: So, you would be an MP, MSP, Scottish Conservative leader, an assistant referee, do you have any other paid positions that you would continue with?

DR: No, my assistant refereeing is something I do, as many other politicians do, away from work. They all have outside interests but MP and MSP and leader of my party is exactly what three of the five Scottish First Ministers have done since devolution. None of them have also chosen to run up and down the side of a pitch and take abuse from football fans, when we can get them back inside stadiums.  So, I’m kind of unique in that way.”

SP: You’ve said before, if you become First Minister you would give up your refereeing job. If you’re not first Minister and are leader of the opposition would you still carry on with that?

DR Yes. I’d look at that. I’ve scaled back since the turn of the year, I’ve done one game in five months, partly due to a bad hamstring injury, but I’d already scaled back my refereeing commitments significantly.”

SP: “How many MSPs in Glasgow can you get this time?

DR: “Well. I absolutely want to see Annie Wells returned she’s our lead candidate. She’s been and excellent MSP over the last five years. I’m extremely grateful for the work Adam Tomkins has done, not just for the Glasgow region but the whole of Scotland in terms of his forensic analysis on some of the legislation that’s gone through Holyrood and I’m hoping to see Annie joined by Sandesh Gulhane, who is one of our candidates who is also a doctor. I think he would bring tremendous experience in the Scottish politics and the Holyrood chamber and there are number of another on the list like Ade Aibinue.

SP: One reason why people should vote Scottish Conservative in Glasgow?

DR: Because we are ambitious for Glasgow as a city, for Scotland as a whole and our manifesto sets out what we would do for the city, for the whole of Scotland, protect people’s jobs restore standards in education, support the NHS, ensure our justice system works for victims rather than criminals and we can do all that and focus on recover rather than another referendum.”